Beautiful conversation on Physics of Soul
Physics of soul - Conversation between Dr. Gregory Benford, Associate Professor at the University of California, Irvine, visited Las Angeles Gardens with Srila Prabhupada
In October 1963, Dr. Gregory Benford, Associate Professor at the University of California, Irvine, visited Las Angeles Gardens to meet with Srila Prabhupada. In his curious conversation, which was about the possibility of the soul,
Srila Prabhupada declares, "We do not say that
scientific information is meaningless. Mechanics, electronics - they are also
knowledge .. But the focal point is self-knowledge. . "
In which those who cultivate the scientific
information of the soul "We do not
Srila Prabhupada: What is the current scientific
information about the soul.
Dr. Benford: There is no scientific information
about the soul.
Srila Prabhupada: So you have not really made any
progress in scientific information.
Dr. Benford: See, scientific information is a
different type of knowledge.
Srila Prabhupada: Probably. There are many divisions
of knowledge - medical study of the body, psychological study of the mind and
lastly spiritual divine knowledge. The body and mind are just the veils of the
soul in the same way that this shirt and coat are the cover (covering) of your
body. If you only care about shirt-coat and ignore the person who is wearing
this shirt-coat, then do you think it is a progress of knowledge?
Dr. Benford:
I think there is no such category of knowledge that is meaningless.
Srila Prabhupada: We do not say that this scientific
information is meaningless. Mechanics, electronics - this is also knowledge.
But there is a difference in the comparative importance of different
departments of knowledge. For example, if one wants to cook well then it is
also science. There are many different divisions of knowledge, but the focus is
enlightenment which is the knowledge of the soul.
Dr. Benford: The only form of knowledge that can be
confirmed is that Confirmation with the view of obtaining the consent of every
human being which can be proved by logic or experiments.
Srila Prabhupada: Self-knowledge can be confirmed by
logic.
Dr. Benford: How?
Srila Prabhupada: Consider your body. Earlier your
child had a body but now it is not that body. You have a different body. Even
then one can understand that your body was child then. So your body has
changed, but you are still the same.
Dr. Benford: I'm not entirely sure that this is the
"I".
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, you are the same
"I". As the child grows up, his parents will say, "Oh! Look at
how big our son has become." He is the same person; His father, his
friends, his family say so, every person says the same. This is the proof. You
have to believe this because there is a lot of evidence about this. Your mother
will not believe that you are a different person, although your body is
different.
Dr. Benford: But I cannot be the same person that I
was.
Srila Prabhupada: Okay. "Not the same"
means, for example, that the child then used to talk in vain, but now he does
not talk foolishly when he becomes an adult. Although he is the same person,
but with the change in body, different consciousness has developed in him. But
the soul or man is the same. He performs actions according to his body —
according to his circumstances. is that all. For example, a dog is also a soul,
but having a dog's body, he lives and acts like a dog. Similarly, when the body
of a soul is of a child, it acts like a child. When the child's body becomes
different, the same soul starts doing human work. His actions change according
to the circumstances, but he remains the same. For example, now you are a
scientist. You were not a scientist in your childhood, so at that time you were
not like a working scientist. Human activities can change according to
circumstances, but man remains the same
Dr. Benford: In the seventh month?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The baby wants to come out.
He feels restless, so he prays to God to free him from this bond. He vows that
on coming out he will become a god. So after nine months he comes out of
Kukshi. But if his parents are not devotees, then he forgets about God. He
maintains his God-consciousness only when the parents are devotees. Therefore,
taking birth in a Vaishnava family is a matter of absolute good fortune where
parents are blissful. This is real scientific information of God.
Dr. Benford: Is it true that the children of all
such parents are spiritually superior to the children of other parents?
Srila Prabhupada: Generally, there is. They get an
opportunity to be trained by parents. Fortunately, my father was a great
devotee, so I received this training right from the beginning. Do not know how
I got this spark of Krishna consciousness and my father recognized it. Then I
made Guru. In this way I have attained this stage of retirement. I am extremely
indebted to my father, because he took care of me so much that I became
completely Krishna-prone. My father used to welcome many saintly men at home
and would say to each one of them, "May you bless my son so that it can
serve Radharani." This was his only desire. They made me play mridang,
though my mother sometimes became disgruntled. She used to say " Why are
you teaching it to play mridang? "But my father used to say" No, no,
it should learn to play mridang a little bit ". My father was very
affectionate towards me. Hence, someone who gets good parents from previous
virtues, so Krishnabhavnamaat This is a great opportunity to move forward.
Dr. Benford: Now what will happen to you and your
disciples next?
Srila Prabhupada: We are going back to Krishna. We have got everything, Krishna's name, Krishna's address, Krishna's form, Krishna's activities - we all know and we are going there. In the Bhagavad Gita (6.7), Krishna promised it
Divine and divine knowledge in birth deeds.
Tyaktva dehan rebirth naiti mameti sojarun॥
Krishna says- "O Arjuna! One who knows me
scientifically is eligible to enter Bhagavat Dham. On leaving this body, he
does not take birth again in this world, but my Sanatan Dham is attained."
Dr. Benford: How do you know that people come back
in some other form
Srila Prabhupada: We see many forms. Where do all
these diverse forms come from - dog form, cat form, tree form, reptile form,
insect form, fish form? What is your explanation for these different forms? You
don't know it
Dr. Benford: Development.
Srila Prabhupada: It is not perfect. Different
species already exist. Fish, tigers, men - they are all there already. It is
similar to a variety of houses in Las Angeles. You can take any of these houses
according to your ability to pay rent, but all types of houses still exist.
Similarly, the living being is given the mode of living in one of these
body-forms according to his karma. But development also happens - spiritual
development. Lasas grow and become spirit plants. From the plant, the organism
enters the body of the insect, the next stage from the insect is that of the
bird, then of the animal and finally this soul develops into human life. And by
nature, one can develop further if one is qualified. Otherwise he has to enter
the development cycle again. Therefore, it is an important treaty in the
evolution of human life.
Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita (9.25)
Yanti devavrata devan patyan yanti paternity.
Bhunti yanti bhutejya yanti madhyajinopi maam
In other words, you can find whatever you want. The
people are many. You can go to the higher realms where the gods live and get a
body there. Or you can go to fathers. You can take the body in the land of
forgetting or go to the world of God, Krishnaloka. At the time of death, this
method of transferring the folk to whom it is called, is called Yoga. There are
physical philosophical and devotional methods of yoga. Devotees can go directly
to Krishnaloka.
Dr. Benford: Of course, you know that there are some
people in the oriental and westernized society who consider it more justifiable
to be completely atheistic about theology. They believe that if God wanted us
to know a little more about them, he would surely make it more easily known.
Srila Prabhupada: So you don't believe in God?
Dr. Benford: I do not believe in God. I cannot form
a vote unless there is no proof.
Srila Prabhupada: But do you think that is God or
not?
Dr. Benford: I doubt there could be a god, but this
has not been confirmed.
Srila Prabhupada: But do you ever think that there
can be God or you don't even think?
Dr. Benford: Yes.
Srila Prabhupada: So you are skeptical - you are not
sure but you have a tendency
That you think there is God. Is not it? You are
skeptical due to your incomplete knowledge. Just. Otherwise you are oriented to
think about God. But by being a scientist, you do not accept until you see it
scientifically. If this is your situation. But you believe in God on your behalf.
Dr. Benford: Sometimes.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, sometimes or always - it
doesn't matter. This is the situation for everyone. As long as we have to live
in human life, there is dormant spirit in man. It has to be awakened only by
proper education. For example, you have become a scientist with proper
training, proper education. In the same way every person has sleep or Krishna.
Proper education is needed to awaken it. However, this education is not
imparted in universities. This is the biggest flaw of modern education.
Although there is an orientation in the students to be Krishna-prone, but
unfortunately the authorities are not giving any education about God. That is
why people are becoming Godless (Anishwar) and they are dazed to get real
happiness and satisfaction of life.
Some clergy in San Diego are going to a meeting to
find out the reasons why people are becoming religious and do not go to church.
But the reason is simple - because your government does not know that life,
especially human life, is for knowing God. She is promoting all the departments
except the main department of knowledge, Ishbhavnamrita.
Dr. Benford: Undoubtedly, the reason for this is the
exclusion of the church and the state.
Srila Prabhupada: There can be many reasons, but the
main reason is that it is Kali Yuga. People are not very intelligent, so they
are trying to stay away from this most important section of knowledge. They are
busy in the departments of knowledge in which animals are also busy. The
progress of your knowledge lies in four things - eating, sleeping, sexual
intercourse and defense. For example, you are searching for many deadly weapons
and political people are taking advantage of them to protect them. You are
looking for different types of chemicals to prevent pregnancy and people use
them in the growth of sex life.
Dr. Benford: What do you think about the moon
campaign?
Srila Prabhupada: That too is gold. You spend so
much money and sleep to get there. Just. Otherwise what can you do there?
Dr. Benford: You can learn there.
Srila Prabhupada: You go there and sleep. Just.
Gold. You are spending millions of dollars and you will not get anything in
return.
Dr. Benford: It is more valuable than this.
Srila Prabhupada: No, nothing more, because eating,
sleeping, sexual intercourse and defense - these four principles are the
background. If you have no knowledge beyond this body then you cannot go beyond
this body-boundary. No matter how much sophisticated physical knowledge you
have, but the entire extent of your work is within these four principles. This
knowledge is also present in lower animals. They also know how to eat, how to
sleep, how to have sex and how to protect.
Dr. Benford: But they don't know anything about
nuclear physics.
Srila Prabhupada: It does not mean that you are
ahead of animals. The only thing is - you are just sophisticated. You are
making a bullock cart a motorcar - isn't it! Only the conversion of physical
knowledge.
Dr. Benford: Knowledge of the structure of the
physical world.
Seal Prabhpad: But it is a waste of power because
eating your activities. Nothing can go further than gold, maithon and
protecting. Yes, the dog sleeps on the floor and you can sleep in a nice room,
but when you fall asleep, you have a bit of joy and pleasure. You may have many
electrical items and many physical facilities, but when you fall asleep you
forget everything. Therefore, this grand event for sleeping is only a waste of
time.
Dr. Benford: You are trying to emphasize what
knowledge does for you. What would you say about the way nature works and the
joy that comes from discovering it? For example, suppose we consider a
substance like this (pointing to grass). We think that through experiments,
theories and analysis, we know that it is made up of particles that are not
visible and we analyze its properties through experimentation. We know that it
is made up of molecules. We also know some of the powers that bind them
together. We have known this for the first time. Earlier, we did not know it.
Srila Prabhupada: But what is the benefit of that?
If you also know about every particle of this grass, what will be the benefit
from it? The grass is growing. It will grow even without your knowledge. You
may or may not know it. It will not make any difference. You can study whatever
you want from a physical, analytical point of view. You can prepare a large
book by studying any useless object. But what will be its use?
Dr. Benford: I consider the world the sum of its
components.
Srila Prabhupada: Suppose I write a treatise about
grass - when did it come, when did it die, what are the fibers, what is the
molecule. I can describe this insignificant leaf in many ways. But what is its
benefit?
Dr. Benford: If there is no benefit to it, then why
has God put it here? Isn't it worth studying?
Srila Prabhupada: We want to say that you will not
study the grass of the God who has created everything, and study the
insignificant grass. If you understand God, then you will automatically
understand grass. But you want to study the grass made by God, separated from
God. In this way you can write treatises on any subject, but why waste your
intelligence in this way? The branch of the tree appears beautiful as long as
it remains attached to the main person, but it dries up as soon as it is cut.
So what is the benefit of studying dry branch? It is a waste of intelligence.
Dr. Benford: But why is wastage?
Srila Prabhupada: Definitely it is wastage because
the result is not useful.
Dr. Benford: So what's useful?
Srila Prabhupada: Knowing yourself — what you are —
is useful.
Dr. Benford: Why is knowledge of your subject better
than plant knowledge?
Srila Prabhupada: If you know what you are, then you
understand other things. This is called atma-tattva or self-knowledge. This is
important. I am a soul and am passing through so many living beings. But what
is my position? I do not want to die, because I am afraid of changing bodies.
That is why I am afraid of death. First of all you should ask this question - I
do not want to suffer, but he comes. I don't want death, but she comes. I do
not want disease, but disease comes. I do not want to be old, but old age
comes. What is the reason that these things are forced? Who forces them? I
don't know, but these are the real problems. I do not want extreme heat, but
summer does come. Why? Who forces us for these things? Why does this force
come? I do not want this summer. what did I do ? These are all real questions,
not just studying the leaf and writing texts. It is a dissipation of power.
Just study in your subject.
_logo_enhanced.png){kind=logo}
beautiful
ReplyDelete